St John's in the City, Wellington, is fortunate to have the principals of two of the country's leading schools, Ian McKinnon of Scots College and Roger Moses of Wellington College, in its congregation. On the eve of Ian McKinnon's retirement Graham Redding took the opportunity to ask him and Roger a few questions about their work and faith.

What or who have been the major influences on your own faith development and commitment to the church?

Ian: Family and schools. My father, who was Head of the NZ Army and Chairman of New Zealand Broadcasting Corporation, and my mother, from the Wellington Plimmer family, were church attendees and as children we simply did likewise, with Sunday School, Bible Class etc at Khandallah Presbyterian Church and as part of life as a boarder at Nelson College. Furthermore, in my career I have always taught in church schools and until Scots College, they have been large boarding schools where chapel has been very much part of the weekly and weekend programme, thus I have continued to attend church, albeit chapel.

Roger: My own family background has been crucial in the growth of my faith. My parents, Ivan and Mavis Moses, were committed Christians, and I was raised in Somervell Presbyterian Church for the first 20 years of my life. The Scripture Union movement and the Evangelical Union at University were also formative on my Christian faith as a young man. Speakers such as David Watson, Michael Griffiths and David Pawson had a large impact on me. In subsequent years, I have been greatly influenced by some of the great Christian writers who have come to faith later in life from a non-Christian background - C S Lewis, Malcolm Muggeridge and Charles Colson are three that spring to mind. Francis Schaeffer and more latterly Philip Yancey are great writers who have influenced my development. Of course, on a personal level, there have been many individuals whose simple living out of the faith on a daily basis have reinforced my conviction of what J B Phillips called "The Ring of Truth".

What are some of the major challenges that schools face today?

Ian: The challenges facing schools today are really quite marked and almost too demanding. Surrounding a young person are family, society and schools and because of the rapidly changing nature of many families and certainly the changing nature of society, too much is being demanded of schools to compensate for the shortcomings in the other two. The result of this is that the core activity of a school, namely the teaching/learning, tends to be somewhat eroded, while anyway schools can't totally compensate for the warm support from family, which is so important, nor can it totally counter the excesses of negative behaviour projected so much in society.

A further challenge facing schools, of course, is that of constant change. Schools can cope with change and many teachers show this with ease, but when change almost occurs for the sake of it, when a teacher can never settle into a teaching pattern, then there is an instability which can be disruptive.

Children learn at school partly because of the enthusiasm and commitment of the teachers to their subject but if teachers are never able to develop a competency in those subjects, then the teaching/learning process will not be as effective.

Roger: Major challenges today include:

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Staffing our schools with highly qualified, vibrant staff who are involved beyond the classroom.

Struggling with the bureaucratic requirements which seem to be more focussed on compliance and reporting rather than teaching and learning

Passing on the 'light' of our heritage in a post-modern society where the need for instant gratification seems to be more pressing than ever.

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What role do you think the church can play today in the education of our young people?

Ian: The role of the Church is important. I am certainly aware of the privilege I have had in my career of always being in church schools. The advantage of a church school is that it is able to give emphasis to moral values through the teachings of the gospels, and with no apology or compromise to political correctness. Furthermore, hopefully a church school can stand more firmly against the fads and fashions that seem to impact on moral values today.

For the Church itself though, it is my belief that it too must stand firmly rather than being too caught up in the fads and fashions of the changes that many demand but don't necessarily serve the purposes for which it stands - i.e. both schools and church must be true to themselves.

The church at times can project a confusion about what it believes in and that, of course, does not serve either its own congregation or its wider community such as church schools well. In saying this though, I believe there is real value at Scots in its relationship with St John's in the City

Roger: The church can be relevant in the education of young people by showing that a defence of the gospel is an intellectually credible position. Christians have been to the forefront in shaping our society - in intellectual disciplines, areas of social justice and philosophical discourse. The Church, therefore, needs to help young Christians realise that their faith is not on some marginalised extreme, but rather the foundation for all that they do.